Science and Religion
One of the most intriguing conversations I had ever had....Myself and my close buddy Sujay (or SuJ as he calls himself these days) have a reputation of some outta of world conversations...and believe me the below conversation is outta world...i mean literally too...posting this with his full consent..read on...
Sujay: wanted to ask this.. saw anbe sivam rite
Ram: yup
Sujay: train crashes.. boy suffering.. timely blood by maddy.. then he dies
Ram: hmm
Sujay: maddy ponders abt this
saying " what kind of design is this "
thats a very very deep Q
Ram: yup I remember
culdt agree with u more
Sujay: i mean i cudnt think of any thinnest thot of answer
Ram: illada its really deep
I mean we really are not tht big enough to get answers for these da
Sujay: he suffers and dies of young age.. ok we can call karma
true.. but was jus pondering
Ram: how do u define karma?
wat we think as right might be wrong
n vice versa
Sujay: based on what u do in prev birth (thats what gen opinion says rite)
Ram: yeah it is
Sujay: karmic rights and wrongs arent human based rite ?
Ram: yup
I mean itz all the purpose of your life
Sujay: matrx style
Ram: actually ur blog on Saddam made me to think this
u never knw wat Saddam's life intent was
Itz not tht I support him or anythin
Sujay: hahaha.. in fact my mom's spontaneity on hearing his death.. naan bit adichitaen ;)
Ram: :)
but seriously therz a possibility
Sujay: of him going 2 heaven ??
Ram: no I dnt want him 2
but the thing his tht might have bn his purpose in life
i mean u knw the story of Ravana rite
Sujay: yeah.. jus 1 mistake in his whole life
Ram: which led to many of his mistakes
Sujay: now I get it what u trying 2 say
Ram: like desecrating Hanuman, abandoning his brither
etc
Sujay: i will paraphrase
the kid in anbesivam;
his purpose is to show maddy what life is and in turn make maddy realise his purpose
Ram: mebbe
but tht might not be his sole purpose
Sujay: like he had his positive karma during his death bed helping maddy get more +ve karma ?
Ram: tht we might nvr knw
Sujay: hmm.. none knows actually
Ram: yup except for the enlightened ones prob
Sujay: some complex design which will actually have some meaning not comprehensible to 99% of humans
Ram: yup perfect
ultimately it might be like a serious of knots...but by jus pullin one out we might get the thread straight
Sujay: most of ppl going for search of the ultimate truth thinking like this rite ?
Ram: I hope so
this is the beginning though
but once u clear one knot everythin might fall into place
but thn its again one way of thinkin
Sujay: this atheists communities dnt think abt these
show me God..Show me God....
Ram: actually am quite intrigued
yeah
my dad said he watched some show on some crap channel where they had this debate
Sujay: vijay tv-da.. even i mentioning that
Ram: hmm
I c
Sujay: torture ..
enna comedy-na even the theists.. even they dint have sufficeint pts
example of theists POV : can see air, oxygen.. god is like that
de 3rd std level-da
Ram: lame
actuala machi offlate am watchin this Science channel here
excellent da
Sujay: hmm
Ram: full cosmos, black hole
seriously excellent
u wnt even change channels
wuld u believe I watched cont from 12 to 9 once
avvlo interestin
Sujay: 9 hrs !
cool
Ram: yup
everytime i c tht am convinced of a Supreme being da
Sujay: i thot me awing at the creator is
the diversity
Ram: yeah
ennana the big bang explains everythin frm the start if time
Sujay: diversity of ppl, thots, blackholes, univ
Ram: yeah exactly
but whn it comes to wat happnd before our physics fails
coz ideally all the matter now in this univ was created outta nothin..
Sujay: lots of counter-theories to bigbang rite?
Ram: yeah
but tht is the widely accepted one da
Sujay: hmm..yeah..
Ram: n frankly me 2 accept tht...coz all other theroies hv failed to explain many features
Sujay: hmm
Ram: many features of today's universe
thr was this program of wht univ is made of
Sujay: hmm
Ram: how many dimensions n stuff
they say tht univ is made of minute strings somethin calld String theory
but it culdnt explain one feature
Sujay: but string theroy failing in some aspects is what i read somehere
yeah
Ram: so now they say univ is made of minute elongated tubes
Sujay: hmm
Ram: I was kinda remninded of our sayin Thoonilum iruppar thurumbilum iruppar
we cannot even explain the basic question of how we came into existence
how can we explain God
Sujay: this is a prevalent logic rite.. some asteroid r something crashing into earth
some chemical reactions
n creation of 1st bacteria .. n he usual evlotion theory
Ram: amino acids..athellam ok
but am askin the ultimate question
Sujay: but "life"
Ram: how 'd the asteroid come...how were the planets born
Sujay: oh ok
Ram: itz an accepted theory tht everythin is born outta star
Sujay: but how star ?
Ram: yup
whn the universa started with a big bang
all the matters were thrown out n frm that day on universe has bn expandin
initially the univ entered into a cosmic dark age for abt 2 billion yrs
Sujay: hmm
Ram: thn first stars were born
Sujay: hmm
Ram: durin the death of a star supernova resulted in planets n other heavly bodies
Sujay: but the beginning for all these is the Q
Ram: yeah the main Q is how 'd the first stars come into existence
Sujay: for us not to find this out only God has this theory that Time machines cant go back
;)
Ram: :)
or mebbe hez tellin us all the time n we r simply not lookin at the right place
Sujay: yabba cant imagine the magnitude of stuff da
Ram: too bis
big
Sujay: hehhehheh
gud one !
Ram: really
actual wht u say is gud point
everythin is k..asteroid came n hit
amino acids chemical reaction
all fine...
Sujay: hmm.. read it in one of Dan brown
Ram: lightenin struck
Dan brown??
Sujay: this theory da.. asteriod hitting earth n life comes
Ram: no am askin which book?
Sujay: one stupid book of dan brown da
Ram: I dn remember readin in any of his works
Sujay: u read all 4 ?
Ram: yup
Sujay: de.. ithu.. some astriod in arctic circle
Ram: deception point?
Sujay: yeah..
Sujay: k back 2 what u were saying
Ram: yeah
they say life happened as a result of thousands of coincidences
Sujay: thousands is so small number
Ram: yeah mebbe shuld have put millions
Sujay: so miniscualr worth of creation that is WE, can see so many coincidences
Ram: isnt this an emphatic proof
of existence of somethin greater
Sujay: thats my sole Q
i mean sole answer to the Q
does God exist
see 1 small example
our face is some 5sq inch area eyes, nose, ears mouth thts it
think abt the umber of ppl on earth so far.. trillions
r 2 ppl similar....see the pernuation and combinations
I cannot handle
Ram: too much
actually the way Science is advancing today every new discovery bolsters this
black holes, Singularity, Time Travel, Parallel universe everythin
Sujay: s.. r ppl ie scientiest short of Qs
90% of scienties are hard core theists
Ram: yeah..I go by the greatest mind
Einstein
Ram: he said Science and religion are not diff
Sujay: both searches same
means r diff
200 yrs 4m now.. ther will religion only in txt books.. but faith in God will increase
specifically hinduism.. as a way of life..
Ram: yup
u said it
Sujay: ther will be temples.. where ppl go n pray..
Ram: :)
Sujay: i personally feel that is enuf..
well, enuf is very dicey term
Ram: Einstein "The most beautiful and most profound experience is the sensation of the mystical. It is the sower of all true science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead. To know that what is impenetrable to us really exists, manifesting itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty which our dull faculties can comprehend only in their primitive forms - this knowledge, this feeling is at the center of true religiousness."
Sujay: machi.. seems a summing up of what we discussing ;)
Ram: yup :0
:)
Sujay: eintein sonna thaan nambuvaanga
Ram: the crux of our discussion in 5 beautiful lines
appo kuda doubt than
Sujay: hmm
?
Ram: people have swelled up egos
they dnt wanna b proved wrong the thing that they have thot is right their whole life time :)
Sujay: hahhaha.. true true
ppl who cant accept reality.. will try to change the reality
Ram: yup u said it
first let them understand general Theory of relativity
then we 'll explain God to them
Sujay: i mean i get what u saying
if u can undertsand a man;s creation
HTF u gonna understand HIS creation
Ram: perfect
Sujay: so many disturbing Qs also da
Ram: like
Sujay: why evil ? y natural disasters ?
y tsunami..?
one which disturbed me the most is " kumbakonam fire tragedy where 30 odd or 60 kids fumed to death
Ram: seriously...
Sujay: i cried..literally after reading in vikatan
i mean..vikatan has written in such a way to kindle emotions..
but seriously whn we think of it
Ram: ofcourse da...the very first Q we get is y??
y kids who dont even have the discreetion of Good from bad
Sujay: yes.. athvum vikatan;s specific incidents poduvaan.. 1 kid wanting 2 save another n bot dying...like tht..
appaaa.. ennala control-a panna mudiyala
Ram: hmm
Sujay: kids man !!
gen we have this hear rite
till 5 yrs of kid.. god speaks to the kids
i mean i have seen it kinda personally.. have seen vivek n rohini grow
Ram: hmm yeah
Sujay: i mean. when they r kids they cry n goto sleep
within seconds.. they sleep n actaully laugh
kandippa god's intervention illaiya enna ???
u mite observed that in samhita also rite?
Ram: 100%
really cannot even come up with a slightest of idea
Sujay: life is.. i mean, undefinable
Ram: yup
too many things and layers
but eventually tied to each other
I mean we r less than an insignificant speck whn compared to the universe
Sujay: do u think humans or evolved humans some may be 1000yrs 4m now will able to untie the knot
Ram: I really doubt da
Sujay: hmm.. same here
i mean i dont want to
Ram: itz too huge da
I mean even today there r saints who realize things
Sujay: if somebody is able to untie the knot and find God and..
Ram: but thn even if they teach us, everyine has to have the maturity to understand things
rather shuld I say spiritual maturity
Sujay: universal truth.. then He is God..
Ram: yup
thts wat Advaita is
Sujay: our basic truth lies on the fact that nobody is above r at par to God
Ram: true...but a part
Sujay: all saints realisation, I belive is, that u cant untie the knot ;)
Ram: I dnt knw :)
am not one
Sujay: hhhahha.. jus said it in lighter sense
Ram: :) but if you see Saints have had mystical powers
Sujay: but thats all not now rite ?
Ram: mebbe
not in the ppl who show they have though
Sujay: yeah.. thats my pt.. God or God thru saints wont show miracles
they dont have 2 show..to prove that they r God..
Ram: not necessarily....
Sujay: means
Ram: takin the liberty to reword ur sentence
Sujay: hmm
Ram: they might display miracles but that will not be for their material needs
like fame or money...u can take the eg. of Sri Ragavendra or Shirdi Saibaba
Sujay: u r echoing my thots basically
they r sent by God to make some realisation..
Ram: Abyuktanam Adharmasya thadathmanam Smrijamyaham
Sujay: thats what they say.. atharmam thalaithookum podhu Kadavul wil make us realise
Ram: exactly
Sujay: have I written what u said in sanskrit?
Ram: almost
Sujay: i mean, man.. good coincidence
Ram: as always :)
Sujay: i had the same thot but cudnt frame it
xln plz
:)
Ram: Atharmam thalai thookum pothu Naan avatharippen...I'll incarnate whenever Adharma increases in the world(Lord Krishna)
Sujay: thats not almost da.. 100% i thot the same
Ram: gr8
